Curse

Smarty · May 15, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

It's finally time for me to get to grips properly with the one thing in GW that I've failed at completely so far: playing a melee role successfully.

What I'm aiming for eventually is to be able to lead an AB team from the front, as I've noticed that a strong melee leader does the job more effectively than even the best midliners and monks, and it's frustrating not being able to change to melee when friends want to play casters. What I'm aiming for at the present moment is to be able to manage aggro and kill stuff without first chasing after it for ages (both of which are currently completely beyond me - sad but true, I have a LONG way to go) when playing NM PvE with h/h and doing HM zquests with pugs, until I have the same sort of feel for the role as I do for that of midliner.

I'd therefore like some advice on how best to play a PvP-style warrior in PvE, assuming that doing so is a viable option, please. I don't want advice on how to play a defy pain/dolyak sig tank unless that really is the best way of handling PvE, thanks. I've read Marty's excellent guide and that's helped narrow some things down, but I'm still feeling a bit vague and woolly about some of the specifics.

I'm thinking that probably shock axe would be a good bar to get some practice with, but how easy is it to run as a beginner's bar and how effective is it in PvE? What modifications would need to be made to the standard HA/GvG bar to make it work well in PvE without losing the basic feel of the bar, if any, or should I run something else entirely?

What insignias and runes and helm (stonefist, sup vigor and minor str+axe I know, but survivor or...? sup absorb or clarity or...? axe or str helm?) and weapon and mods (shocking hilt I know, but fortitude or warding pommel, and 15^50 inscription or...?, sheltered by faith/devotion shield or sleep now in the fire/fortitude or...?) work best with it, or with whichever bar I should be running instead?

If I'm playing with h/h, do I need (from a best-practice POV, not an it's-easy-so-anything-works POV

) to flag them back, micro PS, run in and get aggro and stand still then unflag, or will it not make sufficient difference to enemy behaviour to be worthwhile trying to do it "properly"? Or am I better off hanging back til the minions have the aggro and then linebacking anything that's broken through to my monks? Does the answer change depending on whether it's NM or HM, boss group or not, group composition, etc?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

Neo Atomisk · May 15, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

an endurance axe would be ur best bet.
id be happy to give u the rundown of a war ingame. whisp me on (<---).
ill be on from 3 pm EST until later today

duckboy · May 15, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

tbh u can't really practice doin a pvp warrior in pve as they're 2 totally diffrent fighting styles. thats why some skills were split into pve/pvp variants after all

just look at assassins for example, they've always struggled in pve due to low armor/etc. yet they can kill people in seconds in pvp with the right player/build.

if people are getting away from u too fast u have to chase em there's a few option u can take to stop them with a W:
-run after them which tbh isn't the best idea as it might lure u into their team and u get pwned.
-u could also try using skills that cause crippling, which imo is the best since they can't outrun u even with a running skill.
-now hexes that slow is another option but tbh with W being a melee and low energy, spells aren't really gonna be that effective for the class.
-the only other option i can think of is a gd knockdown chain which could also have the benefit of stopping them from doing anythin even attacking u, but most skills that have knockdowns normally have a recharge which means keeping em permanently on the floor can be quiet difficult.

Bobby2 · May 15, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Playing Warrior well in PvP requires a good feeling for [bull's strike]. You will hardly get any practice in PvE for this.

Best bet is to run a hammer bar so you can practice knocklocking. Seek out areas with lots of human opposition to memorise the animations.

Lux Aeterna · May 15, 2009, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Ignoring the pve thing:

I'm a war primary + mob leader in AB so...

1) Most imporantly: be the most aggressive person in the party. Charge halfway across the map just to save some random dervish.

2) Carefully think through your moves as party leader. Enlarge the mission map, use it to pick strategy. Don't get your party killed.

3) Draw bigass pretty arrows on the map, ping wildly if you really need your group to go somewhere. Practice your arrows so they don't look awkward.

Strategy, as always, is very important.

About combat:

1) Assess the other team's strength, for example if you see four [BadV] tags or [KMD] and [vD] it would be wise to avoid direct combat. Conversely, if you see 3 eles and a sin, it'll probably take you 10 seconds to wipe that party....

2) Upon entering the fight, prioritize squishie targets and generally start beating things up. When you've got adrenaline built, use your axe attacks to spike a target.

3) If a target blocks even once, switch instantly to the next closest 60AL.

There's quite a bit to playing your warrior build effectively, with lots and lots of little tricks.

Ingame name if you want to ask questions: Alexander Strafing

I can tell you about runes/insignia/mods/tactics but would rather not write 10 pages here.

classic guide to playing warrior:
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3484

valet parking's excellent AB tactics guide:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=valet+parking

eldrethv · May 15, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

an endurance axe would be ur best bet.

Except it's been nerfed and now that you can't use an IAS with it, it's not so great.
UNLESS the community has found a new way over night

Smarty · May 15, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Thanks for the replies so far. Nobody's really commented on the best equipment yet, so if someone could address that I'd be v grateful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

an endurance axe would be ur best bet.
id be happy to give u the rundown of a war ingame. whisp me on (<---).
ill be on from 3 pm EST until later today

Thanks for the offer, I'll more than likely take you up on this. However:

Quote:

Originally Posted by eldrethv

Except it's been nerfed and now that you can't use an IAS with it, it's not so great.
UNLESS the community has found a new way over night

This is a good point, and was the main reason for my not assuming WE would be the best bar to run. I know I can still use it in PvE but I don't want to get into bad habits if I can avoid it. I've already had that problem in the past when changing from PvE to AB with mesmer so I don't want to repeat my mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Playing Warrior well in PvP requires a good feeling for [bull's strike]. You will hardly get any practice in PvE for this.

Best bet is to run a hammer bar so you can practice knocklocking. Seek out areas with lots of human opposition to memorise the animations.

This one's a biggie for me. My brief foray into AB with bull's on my bar was a disaster, and you're quite right it really hasn't been useful in PvE so far. The main problem I've had is that I can't catch whoever I'm chasing to bstrike them until they stop running, at which point bstrike becomes useless because they're not moving. What am I doing wrong?

Where animations are concerned, I'm used to being fully scrolled out so I can get a good overview of the field as a caster, and to minimise the effects of all the sparkly animations on my poor sensitive eyes. What's the best camera zoom/angle for playing a warrior, and what things should I be looking out for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckboy

tbh u can't really practice doin a pvp warrior in pve as they're 2 totally diffrent fighting styles.

Yeah I'm expecting what I learn in PvE to not translate over fully to AB. What I'm mainly hoping for from playing PvE first is to not pick up too many bad habits (stationary tanking instead of mobile damage) and to get a good feel for a warrior's strengths and vulnerabilities. I'll feel happy when I can tell I've hit the breakpoint of a fight from the front line, either in my team's favour or against it; at the moment I can't judge when I need to flag my heroes away for a safe retreat and when I can push through to victory, unlike on Smarty where I know it exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

2) Upon entering the fight, prioritize squishie targets and generally start beating things up. When you've got adrenaline built, use your axe attacks to spike a target.

3) If a target blocks even once, switch instantly to the next closest 60AL.

Most of the AB tactics I already knew due to either leading myself or being led by a good warrior, so no worries there. These two points I quoted were really helpful though - thanks.

I probably will bug you in game for more advice once I feel ready for trying warrior in AB; in the meantime if you need an ele on your team feel free to give me a shout so I can see you in action.

Will check out the links too.

Picuso · May 15, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Smartypants

Thanks for the replies so far. Nobody's really commented on the best equipment yet, so if someone could address that I'd be v grateful.

1 stonefist insignia, all others survivor. Superior (or Major) Vigor, Clarity Rune, , Minor Strenght and Attunement Rune.

Helmet of Weapon Mastery (varies if you are using Sword or Axe) with Minor Weapon Rune. If you are using hammer, Helmet Of Strenght with Minor Strenght, and swap your armor Minor Strenght Rune for a Minor Hammer Mastery rune.

15^50 Vampiric +30
15^50 Sundering +30
15^50 Zealous +30
15^50 Elemental +30 (This is optional)

Just choose sword, axe or hammer

The "bad" part is shields: you need one shield for each "+10 Armor vs XXX". And, if you think you can handle them, a blind and cripple reduction shields. Every one of them with +30 health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Smartypants

This one's a biggie for me. My brief foray into AB with bull's on my bar was a disaster, and you're quite right it really hasn't been useful in PvE so far. The main problem I've had is that I can't catch whoever I'm chasing to bstrike them until they stop running, at which point bstrike becomes useless because they're not moving. What am I doing wrong?

The best you can do is go to Isle Of The Nameless, and try to use Bull's Strike vs Master Of Healing and Master of Enchantments. They will try to flee from you, but they will stop to cast.

So you can learn when to use Bull's.

I would recommend doing this with a Hammer bar, so you can KD them, and then try to re-KD with Bull's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Smartypants

Where animations are concerned, I'm used to being fully scrolled out so I can get a good overview of the field as a caster, and to minimise the effects of all the sparkly animations on my poor sensitive eyes. What's the best camera zoom/angle for playing a warrior, and what things should I be looking out for?

I play fully scrolled too. Just keep trying and you will be able to see more than you think

Watching this videos will help you too: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10371091

Lux Aeterna · May 16, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

The best you can do is go to Isle Of The Nameless, and try to use Bull's Strike vs Master Of Healing and Master of Enchantments. They will try to flee from you, but they will stop to cast.

Mostly, just click it only when you're just about to attack a kiting target. If you queue it up too soon, you're just asking to have the target stop.

Much easier to do in rush. When I play shock axe I have energy issues due to constantly switching from frenzy to rush to frenzy against kiters.

Additionally if you suspect that someone is just about to run away, you can click it right as they start moving. This technique doesn't work well with axe, but you'll see good hammer wars do it constantly. It can be quite spectactular when someone kites against a bull's with dash, they end up falling down almost out of spell range and you clomp clomp clomp over to hammer bash them.

Basically put it somewhere easy to click (like your mesmer power spike button), and use it on anything nearby that moves.

Eventually you just get really good at it.

ALSO: If you use Hammer you can fit mending touch in your optional slot, this takes condition pressure off your monk and makes you much more difficult to snare if you're away from the group. I've also used it to save random teammates from palm strikers etc.

----
Equipment is simple:

- Insignia: full survivor, 1 stonefist.

If you want you can put Sentinel's on head/chest, if you do this Rodgorts will hit you for 40 damage but you lose resistance to degen.

- Runes: Superior vigor, +1 strength and mastery, Vitae to fill in everything else.

You can get fancy and run anti cripple / blind runes but the HP will benefit you more in AB.

- Shield: +30, anti-cripple or anti-blind. Don't really need the +10 vs. damage type unless you're monking in GvG.

- Weapons: Vampiric vs. anything but warriors, any elemental vs. warriors. Zealous if you're having energy problems. Sundering is weaker than vamp.

Bring a furious +30hp +5 energy spear to switch to off your vamp and for building adrenaline at the start of fights. Personally I throw spears constantly, any time I'm not directly doing damage.

Wnx Mreslayer · May 16, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Note: Warrior's Endurance isn't nerfed in PvE, it's still the same Skill.

I'm a 4 year Warrior from PvE to PvP i found the most helpful skillbar was your typical Earthshaker bar.
For PvP:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:W/an...Shaker_Warrior
For PvE:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:W/any_PvE_Earth_Shaker

Practise knock-locking as mentioned before and you'll soon be on your way.

Listen to ALL of the advice in this topic and you'll be absolutely fine i guarantee it.

Much <3

RotteN · May 16, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3484

Chiizu's Guide to PvP-warrior on QQ forums.
Might be a bit outdated at some point, but it's still one of the best guides out there.
Part 1 covers the basics, Part 2 is more geared towards GvG but still worth reading to get the general idea.

Quote:

This one's a biggie for me. My brief foray into AB with bull's on my bar was a disaster, and you're quite right it really hasn't been useful in PvE so far. The main problem I've had is that I can't catch whoever I'm chasing to bstrike them until they stop running, at which point bstrike becomes useless because they're not moving. What am I doing wrong?

Use a speedboost or bull's them the second they start to move.

Quote:

Where animations are concerned, I'm used to being fully scrolled out so I can get a good overview of the field as a caster, and to minimise the effects of all the sparkly animations on my poor sensitive eyes. What's the best camera zoom/angle for playing a warrior, and what things should I be looking out for?

Zoom out completely and use whatever angle gives you the best overview of the battlefield. Keep an eye on your compass 24/7.

Neo Atomisk · May 16, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

sorry, i didn't realize WE wad nerfed... bit me on the ass in FA -.-
this topic is a very good source of warrior strategy.

Chicken Ftw · May 16, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Never have bull's pre-pressed when chasing someone from a distance like RA scrubs do. Also, don't always beeline for the nearest monk as soon as you have one in sight, as he'll probably pop Guardian before you get there and laugh at you.

Each player kites differently, and takes a different number of whacks in the face before they realize that shit hurts and move. If someone stops kiting, beat the crap out of them with Frenzy up, they'll move and you'll have your bull's, most likely. Either that, or they'll eat so much damage trying to fake out your bull's, their healer(s) will have to burn energy protting and healing them, at which time you simply switch target and keep up the pressure. Is easier to land a bull's on an unprotected monk/other squishy target by swapping targets unexpectedly than it is to land one while training him constantly. Actually, this is AB, so it's probably not that difficult, tbh. Anyway, basic point is, don't be predictable, and you'll see less block/fail and more dead people.

Learn to quarterknock. It's incredibly fun, deadly, and not that hard to master. Just takes a little bit of practice learning the timing. You're going to be practicing using bull's anyway, might as well practice quarterknocking while you're at it. Would suggest starting on a hammer war, is easiest to learn timing on imo. (Initial kd->flail->crushing->stop attacking briefly via cancel or movement->land second kd right after they finish standing up.) After you've got that down, try bull's/shock using axe. You'll be better than 90% of the warriors in AB once you can quarterknock regularly (not that that's saying much).

Probably one of the biggest things you can do as a warrior is to stay aware. An eye on your compass, knowing who's hitting your team with what, if your monk/other valued squishy could use a hand relieving some pressure off his arse, positioning, etc.

Edit: After playing some AB tonight just to see if most warriors in AB still suck (they do), have to emphasize to know your friggin' prots. Recognize Guardian, SoA, Aura of Stablility, etc. Don't be bad and swing at a character you have no chance of killing just because you're too stupid to switch targets.

If you really want to know how to spot a good warrior versus a bad one, play a monk for a bit.

Dre · May 17, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

If you really suck at it, you can practice Bull's on the Master of Healing and the Master of Survival.

Smarty · May 17, 2009, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

this topic is a very good source of warrior strategy.

Definitely.

Too much good stuff to quote everyone individually any more. Thanks to everyone who's posted here - I have a few ideas for what I can do now to get better at it. RL is conspiring to keep me out of the game for most of the next two or three weeks so I won't get much chance to put it into practice for a while yet, unfortunately. When I do get chance I'll delete somebody and roll up a PvP warrior to go hammer the Nameless NPCs until I've got the hang of the animations and the timing.

_Nihilist_ · May 20, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

1 stonefist insignia, all others survivor. Superior (or Major) Vigor, Clarity Rune, , Minor Strenght and a Vitae rune.

Fixed it for you, Picuso. An Attunement rune is going to give you +2e, which isn't enough of a boost to carry it over a Vitae, which will give you +10HP.

Mister Smartypants, I'd suggest using a Devastating Hammer or Magehunter Smash build instead of Earth Shaker. While Erf Shakur is FTW, Dev/Magehunter is better for a few reasons:

1) Earth Shaker is AoE, but any decent opponents in PvP aren't going to ball up for you to use this on them, it's better to go with a single-target KD so that you aren't "wasting" AoE KD on 1 target

2) Dev/Magehunter both have lower Adrenaline costs than Shaker, which means you'll be using them more often

3) Dev gets bonus damage and applies Weakness to your target (if you hit any Physical with this, it's going to cut their auto-attack DPS down to 1/3 of its normal strength - PWNAGE) and Magehunter cannot be blocked plus it KD's enchanted targets (let a Monk Prot your target/an Assassin throw Crit Defenses in your face, that just insures the KD - PWNAGE)

Once the gwBBcode gets fixed, I'll edit and change this list to code/skillbar

Enraging Charge
Flail
Bull's Strike
Dev Hammer / Magehunter Smash
Crushing Blow
Hammer Bash
Mighty Blow
Utility*

For the Utility* slot, a few good options are:

Warrior:
*Lion's Comfort - self-heal + Adrenaline gain

*Griffon's Sweep / Leviathan Sweep - KD's target if blocked and deals bonus damage (but I BLOCKED!!!

ha ha, sucker!)

Necromancer:
*Plague Touch - Condition removal/transfer

Elementalist:
*Grasping Earth - AoE SNARE on nearby enemies; with 3 ranks in Earth Magic (which is what you have left after maxing Hammer and Strength) it lasts 10 seconds with a 12 second recharge, and only a 5e cost - this skill rapes face!

Mesmer:
*Power Spike - a 5e, 12 sec recharge ranged interrupt - not as nice as Grasping Earth, but still, it's funny to PS an enemy when you aren't in melee range (no KD for you, o wait! Power Spike!

) chances are, they can't find the Mesmer who just 'rupted them!

Xyon the Greatest · May 20, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

enraged smash is really fun in AB since their are so many kiters, you can spam enraged smash and bull's strike with other skills, and apply quite alot of pressure

Lux Aeterna · May 21, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Would love to try using enraged smash, however it's difficult to make a build that can deep wound against a non-kiting target unless you use crushing blow and blow 10 energy on a spike.

One big hammer trick, though, is that it's often good to save crushing blow for a good time rather than mindlessly clicking it after dev. I'll use it not at all, after hammer bash when a target is at 150hp, after bull's, on meteor shower victims, or generally any time making someone lose a few hundred HP seems like a good idea.

Also if you bring protector's strike you can blow 20 energy whenever you feel like it and freak people out with huge damage. It also makes you build adrenaline faster.

For some reason I like to apply deep wounds very late in spikes, this is especially good against disciples insignia but there you've got problems due to dev giving your target +15 armor from the start.

Neo Atomisk · May 21, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

enraged smash is really fun in AB since their are so many kiters, you can spam enraged smash and bull's strike with other skills, and apply quite alot of pressure

9 times out of 10 id say enraged+bulls is so shitty, but after doin some saltspray yesterday, HOLY SHIT there are a lot of kiters.
i'm playin some hammar tomorrow.

PS: this should be stickied, best advice in here i've seen in a while.
not to mention that just reading over this actually helped me out a bit with skill usage... i've become so lazy that i just pressure/use skills on recharge now.

Bobby2 · May 21, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Would love to try using enraged smash, however it's difficult to make a build that can deep wound against a non-kiting target unless you use crushing blow and blow 10 energy on a spike.

Shock-Pulverising Smash is the best I could come up with.